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Might help. Has AU on end of product code. It did seem under powered to me. The information I used was from a datasheet I Sonnen gave me here in Adelaide, but they may have decided to up its power output in the meantime.

I sent Finn a copy by email this arvo. Lots of changes. BTW installation can not assumed to be free. I believe it will be an absolute minimum of a grand and possibly probably more.

Thanks for that. I completely agree. I tell my single phase supply customers who indicate the want a battery to either install an Enphase battery they are mostly Enphase PV system customers for the buzz or actually get a three phase supply so they can now or later go large.

Many retailers will actually move house supply to three phase for a surprisingly low cost and the house can generally continue to operate as before on a single phase.

Forget about batteries for at least the next 5 years. As Ronald has said: it is not a paying proposition. I have 36 kWh lead gel batteries because I was denied grid access.

So, I have my system separate from the grid, but can separately draw from the grid. The problem with the grid is the service charge which should be pro rate instate of a fixed tax irrespective or whether you use 10 kWh a quarter or 10, kWh.

Why forget about batteries????? If you want details of my set up or fine details of bills etc. I will gladly share them with you or others, to prove to anyone that in N.

In other states, it could be a different story, as the supply charges and kw ph rates are different, but in N.

Obviousness- at more than 40c kwh then the saving is higher. After discounts most people pay less than 40 cents per kilowatt-hour for grid electricity and it is very difficult for a normal home to use a battery at full capacity — that is always charge it to full with solar electricity during the day and always drain all usable stored energy overnight.

Also, the capacity of the battery may decrease over time. You have missed a lot. The calculations are not that simple.

I have 3 batteries totalling 23 kw which are hooked up to different phases of the house. The biggest battery to the biggest load phase then the other batteries to the other phases.

We usually cycle our batteries to almost flat by the morning and by 10 am Sydney, on a bright sunny day, Sept. Everyone needs to look at their own needs and usage patterns and fine tune them to your individual needs.

There is not one system that will cater for everyone. The questions you need to be asked, do I have three phase or single phase?? There is a lot to fine turning ones home.

So there no simple calculation here. I know that my system is working great for me. Wow Tim that is a huge system. And what kind of batteries are you using?

HI Tim, how can I contact you? I think we would be looking at about 50KW battery capacity across the 3 phases. If you want to add an AC coupled battery and it would bring the total solar plus battery inverter capacity to over 5 kilowatts then the AC coupled battery will need to be capable of export limiting.

As far as I am aware they are all capable of this. I have a Tesla powerwall 2, it nearly always run flat out of power late at night.

So the off peak rate starts at 10pm and finishes at 7am. The plan is about 14c a KWh. Generally, if you have a battery you are better off on a time of use tariff.

If you had solar before you got a battery and were better off on a time-of-use tariff then what you were paying on that before you got a battery is what you should compare your bill to now to see how much your battery saves you.

But if you were better off on a standard tariff before you got a battery that is what you should compare what you are paying now to.

Correct, you should go on time of use rate. This way you have power from your powerwall 2 during the most expensive time pm peak rate and pm shoulder rate.

Then when the battery gets flat, you will be drawing from the street at the off peak rate, so theoretically you should hardly ever pay peak rate.

Another thing to consider is the weather. Charge at This is very annoying. My lg batteries can be forced charged by simply programming the hybrid inverter.

So you see there is ways to minimise and turn things around to your advantage with a battery system. Another thing to consider is the hot water system.

Are your on off peak?? Again if there is going to be bad weather ahead, flick it back to off peak, to be heating up during the night normal. For this, you will need a separate switch on or near the hws, so you can switch back and forth from the off peak wire to the constant wire.

This is how my system is. Great conversations going on here. As I live in Mexico many of the threads do not apply to me metering changes based on time of day.

One thing I also have here is a solar hot water heater, which are becoming very popular here. As a gas or electric water heater run often day or night to maintain hot water when needed, they are costly.

A solar hot water heater has an insulated tank that maintains very hot water day and night. Mine has the capacity of three showers at night during cold weather.

I calculate that the price of the heater, plus install included in price paid for itself in one year. That was three years ago and we never looked back, great investment.

I am not pleased with the situation that has occurred to us. We installed a 9. Since then from A voltage check shows our line voltage is v.

SA Power networks know about he problem, but we are still awaiting some assistance, note that us and the neighbor are the only consumers on the power line.

My concern is that that constant shutting down and restarting will damage our equipment. Any comments. It sound like to me that the lines street are being overloaded and in turn pushing your neighbours excess electricity production into your inverter which cuts out to protect itself.

Look into some sort of devise or transformer to minimise any electricity spikes. But your right, eventually, the invert will have a much shorter life span.

In reply to the comment from Tim Efthymiou, that is good advice. My hot water system is gas anyway. I did not make it clear in my original post concerning the calculations over the pay off for batteries.

This is the point I should have made — If I did not have a battery then I would likely be on the regular plan and pay the same rate regardless of time of day, around 28c per KWh, but having the battery means that I can go on time of use and pay about 14c per KWh.

So I am not only saving the electricity that the battery can store and use after sun down, but when I do use the grid I am paying off peak rates.

Good advice about charging the battery on off peak rates, I can easily set the Tesla PW2 to back up mode when it is fully charged in the evening, then change it back the next day when it is raining, it is suppose to rain hard tomorrow here so I will try it tonight.

It also lasts a lot more cycles — particularly when provided in such a limited setup as the Sonnen. I note the maximum the warrant on any system is a paltry 0.

If sonnen included a better inverter as they go up in capacity they could theoretically deliver much higher — around 9kW continuous. To actually determine if the sonnen has a better lifecycle you have to subject a sonnen and a PW2 to exactly the same test cycle charge and discharge over at least the 10, warranted cycles to get an accurate result.

If their 6kWh batt can handle 3. Sure an inverterthat big might be too expensive but plenty around the 6kW mark. That would be a real point of difference with the PW2.

Well the prices are in after the battery subsidy and they are WAY more expensive than the estimates that Ronald made. Not his fault; he just went off the existing prices and applied the subsidy.

I am just trying tio get a price on a sonnen battery with out all the government rebates. Just want a straight answere , cost to install not thousands of dollars on top it seems a very simple connection.

HI Ronald I have three phase power to my house and have two 5kw solar panel strings on two of the three phases each with their own single phase SMA inverter.

A sales rep tells me that the Sonnen single phase battery with the Sonnen Protect has the ability to send power to all three phases even in times of black out.

Do you agree with what they are saying? It operates at an air temperature of up to 45 degrees, In Queensland we get temperatures well over this , will that kiss the warranty good by.

From then on our system continually dropped out, after our solar installer was contacted many times he came and installed a smart meter and set the voltage at V.

The system still kept dropping out and on a clear day is only producing about 16kw. We and the neighbor are the only consumers on what is a bundled cable supply from the city edge.

They also said that they were not required to accept power into their system, even though they had granted permission to install it.

Their only response was buy a battery. So much for proper planning of our national grid. What to do, being an 82 year old pensioner trying to provide for our independence now with a worthless installation.?

Keith — SA Power Networks have a legal obligation to keep your local grid within certain voltage limits. Had the same problem in Brisbane , Grid over Voltage would go up to volts, it was not to go over volts and was shutting down the smart inverter about 6 times a day , The inverter was sending me e-mails in LX format showing when it shut downs and started up.

We were losing 3 hours a day some days, talked to an engineer at our supplier , but did no good ,got hold of the public relations department of our electric supplier told them must be mad as they were losing money and I had a 20 page xl spread sheet saying so , and how Energex was breaking the law by not complying with AS!

There is a conflict of interest in the electricity wholesalers — they do not look after the consumer, despite what they state on their websites.

Solar installations on roof tops are often blamed as the cause of this, although at night, the voltage on the lines is almost always greater than the nominal volt.

Until there is a way to use the excess power being produced generally in the middle of the day , I cannot see any australia wide improvement.

But, there are a lot of solar farms being proposed and built, and surely this will just add to the problem of excess power during the day.

Time for a royal commission.. Having studied the sonnen situation in Europe, it seems like sonnen has set its focus on becoming a power supplier in the future.

With their so called Sonnen Community they create a network in which a lot of energy can be stored. With the foreseen closing of nuclear powerplants in Germany and the reduction of coal operated powerplants before due to climate goals, controlling a substantial part of the energy supply could be a profitable businessmodel.

Since the batteries are connected and controlled via internet sonnen can manage all batteries. Where the taxpayer paid for the old fashioned state owned grid, got confronted with rising costs of energy after privatizing, it seems to me that someone found a smart trick to fool a lot of solar energy fans.

I have a The loss of opportunity cost based on throttling without storage is 0. Our General Tariff is 0. That being the case you can add to the battery savings kWh x 12 mths x 0.

The backup box appears to show what would look like 2 large fans, is that right? I installed a Several weeks later I bit the bullet and installed a 16kWh sonnenBatterie.

My calcs say the complete system will pay back in just over 7 years, and I expect 15 years from the battery based upon user reviews.

I looked at sonnen flat but that means I dont get paid for grid feed in so doesnt work even though they are offering 2 years free at the moment.

This article seems to be taking the piss out of a teriffic product, not something I expected to read on an otherwise helpful website.

Glad to hear your Sonnen battery is working well for you. You would never install it alone. Might as well ask what is the payback time of a solar array without an inverter.

If the system as a whole has a payback of 7 years that is the most important information. Perhaps we should stop being so ignorant and try to learn from them.

Their recycling systems also make us look like the incredibly primitive polluters we are. By the way I am not Dutch but have visted there many times and married one.

Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email. RSS - Posts. To get your quotes, please enter your postcode:.

Solar Quotes Blog. Enter your postcode now. But I am happy to be wrong about this. No one knows why. After all, he is Dutch. Because it seems to be outshining the sunlight we can see through those immense glass walls.

If that is the case I apologize for that. Filed Under: Battery Storage. Comments Steven Zilm says. September 26, at pm. Hanging out for Fridays industry update….

Dr Who is a she now….. Niels says. Tim Efthymiou says. W residents. Hopefully they bring the battery subsidy to N. Griff says. September 28, at am.

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